Vici Properties (VICI) Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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Vici Properties (NYSE: VICI)
Q4 2024 Earnings Call
Feb 21, 2025, 10:00 a.m. ET

Contents:

• Prepared Remarks
• Questions and Answers
• Call Participants

Prepared Remarks:

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the VICI Properties fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.

Please note that this conference call is being recorded today, February 21, 2025. I will now turn the call over to Samantha Gallagher, general counsel with the VICI Properties. Please go ahead.

Samantha Sacks Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Everyone should have access to the company's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings release and supplemental information. The release and supplemental information can be found in the investors section of the VICI Properties website at www.viciproperties.com. Some of our comments today will be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws.

Forward-looking statements, which are usually identified by the use of words such as will, believe, expect, should, guidance, intend, outlook, projects, or other similar phrases, are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from what we expect. Therefore, you should exercise caution in interpreting and relying on them. I refer you to the company's SEC filings for a more detailed discussion of the risks that could impact future operating results and financial condition. During the call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP measures, which we believe can be useful in evaluating the company's operating performance.

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These measures should not be considered in isolation or as a substitute for our financial results prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measure is available on our website, in our fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings release, our supplemental information, and our other filings with the SEC. For additional information with respect to non-GAAP measures of certain tenants and/or counterparties discussed on this call, please refer to the respective company's public filings with the SEC. Hosting the call today, we have Ed Pitoniak, chief executive officer; John Payne, president and chief operating officer; David Kieske, chief financial officer; Gabe Wasserman, chief accounting officer; and Moira McCloskey, senior vice president of capital markets.

Ed and team will provide some opening remarks, and then we will open the call to questions. With that, I'll turn the call over to Ed.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Samantha. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Over the course of the next few minutes leading into our Q&A session, you'll hear from John Payne on our growth activities and you'll hear from David Kieske on our financial results, financing activities, and initial 2025 earnings guidance.

I'll start the call with a few words about the announcement we made Wednesday morning initiating a new VICI strategic and financial relationship with Cain International and Eldridge Industries through an initial investment in the financing of the One Beverly Hills development. Like most of VICI's growth activities, this VICI investment is a result of our growing a new relationship. This relationship began last May when on a trip to London, I spent time with Jonathan Goldstein, the founding CEO of Cain International, a diversified global real estate development and investment company. By the end of our hour, Jonathan and I agreed that we should find ways to work together.

Our urge to work together grew out of the recognition that we share convictions and we share values. We share conviction in the secular strength for years to come of experiences. We share cultural and ethical values around partnership. Put another way, the meeting of Cain and VICI is a meeting of minds and a meeting of ambitions, particularly the shared ambition to invest in differentiated place-based experiences, whether those experiences are entertainment, hospitality, wellness, or sport-based.

Excuse me. For those of you not familiar with Cain, which, as of year-end 2024, had nearly $18 billion in assets under management, it was founded in 2014 by Jonathan and his partner Todd Boehly and is affiliated with Eldridge Industries, an investment company founded and led by Todd Boehly. Cain and Eldridge have made investments in iconic experiential brands that include Aman, Delano, St. James sports clubs, Cirque du Soleil, and Flexjet.

Todd is an owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Lakers, and both Todd and Jonathan are owners of Chelsea FC in the English Premier League. As 2024 went by, Jonathan asked if Cain's development in One Beverly Hills might be our first opportunity to work together. These discussions enabled Cain, Eldridge, and VICI to get to know each other better. And over the last few months, we all came to believe that our shared conviction around place-based experiences could yield as many compelling opportunities to work together in the years to come.

And that's why as well as announcing our One Beverly Hills investment on Wednesday, Cain, Eldridge, and VICI also announced our joint signing of a letter of intent expressing our intention to work collaboratively to identify and pursue experiential investment opportunities that meet our respective investment objectives. As you would have seen if you reviewed the investment deck we posted to our website, One Beverly Hills stands to rank among the most compelling American luxury hospitality, retail, and residential developments in recent history. The development is currently rising out of over 17.5 of the best-located acres in Beverly Hills, a triangle bordered by Wilshire Boulevard, Santa Monica Boulevard, and the LA Country Club. This development is centered on the Aman brand, among the world's most venerated luxury hospitality brands.

One Beverly Hills will be the largest realization of Aman-branded hospitality, wellness, and living to date, with an Aman hotel, an Aman wellness spa, an Aman club, and two Aman residential towers. The development will also include a full renovation of the legendary Beverly Hilton, longtime host site of the Golden Globes and the Milken Conference, as well as 10 acres of botanical gardens and open space with high-end retail and dining offerings. Capital is a key fuel for ambitious place-makers and experienced creators. Cain stands among the most ambitious place-makers we have come to know, and yet Cain balances that ambition with what we've seen to be strong capability in development and risk management.

We believe multigenerational multinational demand for the differentiated experience within the differentiated place will create abundant opportunities for Cain and Eldridge in the coming decades, and we're excited about the prospect of becoming a long-term partner in their growth. This announcement of our new partnership with Cain and Eldridge represents our first new venture in what we hope will be a year of new investment ventures in both gaming and nongaming. For more on that, I'll now turn the call over to John. John.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Thanks, Ed, and good morning to everyone. I'll start by reiterating Ed's enthusiasm around the new strategic relationship we formed with Cain and Eldridge. As we've said time and time again, deep relationships are at the core of VICI's investment strategy. Through the development of a new relationship with Homefield Kansas City and the strength of existing relationships with Great Wolf and the team from Venetian, we were able to commit approximately $1.1 billion of capital in 2024 at an initial yield of 8.1%.

The quality and scale of our existing portfolio also accrues to the value of our platform. Since our last earnings call in early November, the VICI team attended the Nareit Conference in Las Vegas. The conference provided a great opportunity to physically showcase our Las Vegas Strip assets and convey the incredible scale of operations happening at these properties every single day. For example, The Venetian to which we committed up to $700 million in 2024 through our Partner Property Growth Fund strategy sprawls over 17 million square feet and is being proactively reimagined across several business verticals, including conventions, food and beverage, hotel rooms, gaming floor optimization, entertainment, and more, to drive the continued growth of the operating business, as well as capitalize on the Sphere, which sits behind The Venetian.

In RJ Milligan's Nareit recap note, he observed that, I quote, "With all the events in and around Las Vegas, it was hard to ignore the quality of VICI's real estate, which we don't think the market is giving them enough credit for. It's just so hard to comprehend that VICI was able to purchase The Venetian at the same cap rate as a well-located Dollar General." Well stated, RJ. Las Vegas tourism also continues to hit records. According to the LVCVA, 2024 saw record airline passengers through Harry Reid Airport at 58 million for the year and visitation to the city increased 2% year over year to approximately 42 million.

Our operating partners recognize the value in proactively investing in and reinventing experiences at our assets to capitalize on demand. For example, MGM Grand recently announced a $300 million remodel of all of their 4,200 hotel rooms to be completed in December of 2025 and launched their Palm Tree Beach Club, outdoor music and entertainment venue, which will open in May of 2025. Caesars New Orleans just opened following a comprehensive $435 million renovation, and the property hosted many Super Bowl goers a couple of weeks ago. And in November of last year, Harveys Lake Tahoe also announced a $100 million all-encompassing transformational project.

Just since the fourth quarter, our operators have announced nearly $1 billion of investments in our real estate that is reflective of our shared conviction around the value of high-quality experiences at high-quality properties. VICI believes that the quality and scale of investment opportunity in our existing properties, as well as our ability to cultivate and maintain deep relationships with our partners, will provide springboards for future growth. Now, I will turn the call over to David, who will discuss our financial results and guidance.

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, John. I'm going to start with our balance sheet. As we begin 2025, seven years after our IPO in 2018, I want to highlight 2024 and reflect on how far our balance sheet has come since, well, going way back to our preemergence in the summer of 2017 when VICI had total leverage of roughly 10.5 times debt to EBITDA. We were born with a very unnatural balance sheet for a REIT, short tenor, secured debt, second-lien debt, a $1.6 billion CMBS loan that matured in 2022, all instruments that we knew were not consistent with becoming the blue chip REIT we knew we should and could become.

After we emerged in October of 2017, we got to work on fixing our balance sheet. We started to chip away the second-lien notes with our IPO and retired the remaining 498 million in February 2020. In connection with the Eldorado-Caesars merger, we retired the CMBS debt. And with our acquisition of MGP, we were able to retire all of our remaining secured debt and received an investment-grade credit rating from S&P and Fitch in April of 2022.

There was one straggler at that time, Moody's. Through the leadership of Erin Ferreri on our team, we put our heads down and worked with Moody's over the next two years to educate them on the merits of gaming, the resiliency of our tenants' business, and the quality of our balance sheet. That work paid off with the Moody's upgrade we received on November 18th of 2024, giving us an investment-grade credit rating across all three agencies. The ratings upgrade should accrue to our benefit with an improved access to and cost of capital over time.

We believe our balance sheet and unsecured debt complex is one of the more liquid debt complexes across the REIT landscape with total debt of 17.1 billion, which we have unsecured debt of 14.1 billion. This creates liquidity in our unsecured notes, and we saw this in our December refinancing where we had several new institutional credit investors coming to our offering. The quality of our balance sheet was also highlighted during our recent recast of our unsecured revolving credit facility, which we closed subsequent to quarter-end with a new $2.5 billion facility. We had strong sponsorship from our bank group and want to thank each and every institution that committed to that facility and the conviction they all have in our balance sheet and business.

We have approximately 3.3 billion in total liquidity, comprised of approximately 525 million in cash, 376 million of estimated proceeds available under our outstanding forwards, and 2.4 billion of availability under our revolving credit facility. Our net debt to annualized fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA excluding the impact of unsettled foreign equity is approximately 5.3 times, within our target leverage range of 5 to 5.5 times. We have a weighted average interest rate of 4.41%, taking into account our hedge portfolio, and a weighted average of 6.4 years to maturity. Again, thank you to Erin and the entire team for the work that has been completed but know that we are not done with the continual focus on improving our balance sheet.

Touching on the income statement. AFFO per share was $0.57 for the quarter, an increase of 3.6% compared to $0.55 for the quarter ended December 31, 2023. For the full year 2024, AFFO per share was $2.26, an increase of 5.1% compared to $2.15 for the full year 2023. Our results highlight our highly efficient triple net model given the increase in adjusted EBITDA as a proportion of the corresponding increase in revenue.

Our margins continue to run strong in the high 90% range when eliminating noncash items. Our G&A was 20.7 million for the quarter and as a percentage of total revenues was only 2.1%, which continues to be one of the lowest ratios in not only the triple net sector but across all REITs. Turning to guidance. We are initiating AFFO guidance for 2025 in both absolute dollars, as well as on a per-share basis.

AFFO -- the AFFO for the year ending December 31, 2025 is expected to be between $2.455 billion and $2.485 billion or between $2.32 and $2.35 per diluted common share. Based on the midpoint of our 2025 guidance, VICI expects to deliver year-over-year AFFO per share growth of 3.3%, a very solid starting point as we begin 2025. As a reminder, our guidance does not include the impact of operating results from any transactions that have not closed, interest income from any loans that do not yet have final draw structures, possible future acquisitions or dispositions, capital markets activity, or other nonrecurring transactions or items. With that, operator, please open the line for questions.

Questions & Answers:

Operator

Thank you. [Operator instructions] Our first question for today comes from Anthony Paolone from J.P. Morgan. Your line is now open.

Please go ahead.

Anthony Paolone -- Analyst

Yeah. Thanks and good morning. I guess my first question is, from our side, we obviously just see the things that you close, but I'm wondering if you could talk about kind of what deal flow looked like in '24 and what it looks like currently in contrast to maybe in prior years, you know, whether you're seeing a lot of stuff and it's just not making it past the finish line or you're not seeing as much as you'd like in terms of outright property purchases. And so, any color there would be great.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. I'll start, Tony, and then I'll turn it over to John. You know, 2024, for us, was a year in which we did not see anything resembling a plentiful flow of compelling high-quality real estate acquisition opportunities. We did see a very compelling opportunity to further invest in one of our marquee properties, The Venetian.

And what we also saw is that while high-quality existing assets don't appear to be widely for sale or at least didn't in 2024, highly compelling high-quality developments were there. And a lot of the work we've done, you know, whether with Homefield at the very beginning of the year, whether our ongoing work with Great Wolf, our ongoing work with Canyon Ranch and Cabot, and now our new work with Cain and Eldridge, is about identifying and providing capital to great experiential place-makers and getting very, very good yields on it, especially when comparing those yields to the incredibly high quality of the developments we're helping to fund. And beyond that, I'll turn it over to John, who can give you further color on what we saw in 2024, but maybe more importantly, what we believe we will see in 2025. John.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Yeah. A little bit to add. Tony, good to talk to you this morning. One of the parts of your question was how does it compare to years before.

Remember, when we started the company, as David walked through some of that history in his opening remarks, we really were born simply a casino triple net lease REIT. Today, as with Ed's announcement and our announcement the other day, you can see we continue to diversify our portfolio. So, the funnel continues to get wider of things that we look at. And I would say, the beginning of 2025, I'm as busy or busier than I've been in a very long time.

And we continue to be very thoughtful of where we put our capital to work, the type of partners that we want to do business with, the type of growth potential. So, that's a long way of saying we're quite busy. The funnel is wide. We're looking at a variety of things in the experiential and the casino gaming space.

Anthony Paolone -- Analyst

OK. Thanks. And then just follow-up, any comments on where you think cash yields would be right now for some of the various buckets that you're looking at, whether it would be, you know, where high-quality asset on the Strip might be versus regional versus some of the other categories?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, not a lot of visibility into that, Tony, on the Strip. Obviously, we haven't seen any meaningful trades recently on the Strip. And I think with the volatility that we've seen in the 10-year over, well, what are we now, the last three years, and this year has not really represented a meaningful change from that volatility. I think it's really -- it's a little bit hard to get pricing certainty on permanent assets, whether on the Strip -- regional, I think there's been more trading activity, John.

So, there's probably somewhat more clarity there. Though, again, quality, for us, is a key consideration.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

And remember, on the Strip, Tony, the world is pretty good out there. I'm not sure there's a market that had such great success again in 2024 after following a record of 2023. So, operators looking to sell those assets on the Strip is not likely at this time because the business continues to be strong across many of the different segments in Las Vegas.

Anthony Paolone -- Analyst

OK. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Caitlin Burrows of Goldman Sachs. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Caitlin Burrows -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Hi. Good morning, everyone. Maybe just following up on the development funding talk, Ed, I know you mentioned that when you looked through the opportunities of '24, it seems like that's what made sense at the time. So, I guess how do you think of that development funding that eventually gets paid back versus acquisitions and what that means for the future of the portfolio and like recurring nature of income?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, no, it's a very good question, Caitlin, and it's one we think and talk about a lot at the management table at VICI. We -- as a starting point, in this particular case with Cain and Eldridge, much has been the case with Great Wolf, we are not overly concerned about the money coming back because of the depth and time extent of the pipeline we believe we could have with Cain. And in this particular case, I obviously need to be careful here, but I do want to say that in the particular case of One Beverly Hills, we are working -- we continue to work with Cain. And I should note, the money for One Beverly Hills, that 300 million, has already gone out the door.

But we continue to work with Cain at potentially participating in a larger and longer way with One Beverly Hills. But beyond that, to really get to the heart of your question, we see a pipeline of opportunities with Cain across their various verticals that could enable us to continue to roll our capital into new Cain ventures. When they talk, for example, about the growth opportunity for Aman globally, especially across Europe in the coming decade, we see an opportunity to continue to be a funding partner in that particular example, much in the way David and the team have been now a steady partner to Great Wolf for how long, David? Five years?

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, about five years. Right.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

So, we obviously are mindful of the fact that this money will come back to us at some point or could come back to us at some point, Caitlin, but we really do focus on relationships that we think could enable us to continue to basically roll that capital into new manifestations of a given partnership.

Caitlin Burrows -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Got it. OK. Yeah, that makes sense. And then maybe a more like nerdy question, but on the share count, you guys have a lot of forward equity.

So, can you go through over what time period you're required to settle those shares, under what conditions you would choose to settle them, and what assumptions for your own share price are assumed in guidance?

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, Caitlin. I mean, as we've done for many years now, we have, you know, outstanding forward equity on a quarter-by-quarter and an annual basis. And those contracts are typically one-year contracts, but they are extended and amended to go beyond that initial period of time, and that is very commonplace with banks and the counterparties. And then in our guidance on our share count, we use a Treasury stock dilution method in our -- in making some estimates around reasonable projections around future stock prices and incorporating a level of dilution into our guidance range but do not obviously take into consideration the entirety of those outstanding forwards because we use those to match funds for potential acquisitions, which are not in our guidance.

So, this is, you know, very common across the REIT land, and we've been doing it. I know a lot of other triple nets have done it for years.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

And maybe I'll just add to what David said, Caitlin, by emphasizing that the way we did it for 2025 guidance is the way we have always done it.

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

That's right.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

There's been no change to the methodology.

Caitlin Burrows -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Got it. OK. Thanks.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Caitlin.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Barry Jonas of Truist Securities. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Barry Jonas -- Analyst

Hey, guys. Good morning. In September, you'll have the right to call the Caesars Forum Convention Center at the same cap rate you had on the Indiana properties. Any thoughts you can offer on the puts and takes to exercising that option? Thanks.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Barry, John Payne, good to talk to you. It's definitely an asset that we're well aware of. They built a great facility there. It anchors the empty acreage that we have in Las Vegas.

So, we'll continue to see how it's performing when that time comes up. It obviously also connects to one of our assets in the Harrah's facility that we own the real estate and the building and lease it back to Caesars. So, it's definitely on our radar. It's definitely something that we've been looking at over the years and well aware of this opportunity that we could have, and we'll continue to study it in the time period as it approaches.

Barry Jonas -- Analyst

Understood. And then just as a follow-up, you know, I'm not sure you've talked about this before, but you've obviously operated golf courses, but is there a scenario where you would consider operating casinos or other assets in a TRS? Thanks.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Well, as a starting point, any casino -- and, Samantha and David, help me out here. Any casino that went into a TRS would have to be a casino with zero, repeat, zero hotel rooms. There is an intricacy or nuance of REIT legislation that would forbid the inclusion of a casino with hotel rooms in a TRS. Beyond that, I would say we don't see that happening.

We would not seek to have that happen. I guess it's always a possibility that we would be silly to rule out a priori with 100% certainty, but not in our plans.

Barry Jonas -- Analyst

Understood. All right. Thanks, guys.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Greg McGinnis of Scotiabank. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Hey. Good morning. Given the --

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Hey, Greg.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Nonbinding -- can you hear me?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yup.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Hello. Sorry.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, we can. We can hear you.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Just given the nonbinding letter of intent on the new partnership with Cain and Eldridge, how would you describe your competitive positioning relative to other capital providers, especially as they consider more permanent financing options upon completion of that development?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. Yeah, it's a very good question to ask, Greg. I would say that in the case of One Beverly Hills -- so again, we shouldn't rule out anything ever a priori -- we do not expect to become a permanent real estate owner of the assets at One Beverly Hills. But having said that, based on the discussions we've already been in with Jonathan Goldstein and with Todd Boehly, we see opportunities to work across the portfolio.

For example, in the Cain-Eldridge portfolio, you will see that one of the investments they have is St. James clubs. And again, I really emphasize looking at that slide and the wonderful deck that Hayes put together. And St.

James club can represent an example of us to further capitalize on the knowledge we've gained through our investment in Chelsea Piers into this kind of sports and recreation complexes. And absolutely, they will always have the ability to seek other forms, other sources of capital, but I will emphasize that there is a cultural union between -- or among Cain, Eldridge, and VICI that gives us a lot of confidence that we will always have a chance to be a partner of choice to them as they seek to capitalize the really compelling experiential investments they are making. And I will -- and I mean --

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

OK.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

I will say to that regard, Greg -- Greg, I'll just say, to that regard, it was Todd Boehly who proposed, hey, let's do an LOI. I mean, Samantha can explain why, in a case like that, you kind of have to make it nonbinding, but it was a sign of Todd's commitment to the partnership.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

OK. Good to hear. I guess thinking about, you know, investing in the assets that you already have, one, curious, is Venetian kind of be looking for more of the capital you've potentially committed. And then, you know, MGM guided slightly lower growth capex funding for this year.

So, it does appear they're allocating some funding to the MGM Grand. What's your kind of general sense of how capex budgets are trending for casinos compared to the last few years? What might that mean for your investment opportunities with them in Las Vegas and regionally? And then also, how does that compare to the contractually obligated capex?

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Yeah, very good question. I'll start in Las Vegas. One of the advantages of our portfolio and having such a big presence in that market is the assets are absolutely incredible. In my opening remarks, I talked about Venetian, and I said that they had over 17 million square feet.

That's bigger than some company's whole portfolio, and it's one of our assets in one market. Why I bring that up is that it provides opportunity for us to brainstorm with the operator about how to use our capital to continue to have them grow. And obviously, we -- over the past year, we announced the amount of money up to $700 million we've been putting in with the Apollo team into The Venetian. We have those same conversations with our other partners and operators.

Obviously, Las Vegas has bigger boxes than the regionals, but we do have conversations with our regional partners about all their opportunities to build hotels or their opportunities to bring casinos that happen to be on riverboats on the land. So, we continue to have those discussions. I think there continues to be an excitement about putting new capital into Las Vegas. In fact, there is an article I saw this morning about the Caesars organization putting over $1 billion into Las Vegas over the past couple of years.

So, that should get you and our investors excited about the opportunities that could be presented in that market. But I think '25 is very similar to what we saw in '24 and even '23 that operators continue to reinvent themselves and they need capital to create new experiences.

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Rich Hightower of Barclays. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

Hey. Good morning, everybody, and congrats again on --

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Good morning, Rich.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

The new partnership with Cain-Eldridge. Good morning, Ed. Let me go back to the guidance really quickly if you don't mind. David, I think you mentioned in the prepared comments that certain loan fundings are not included in the AFFO number as presented last night.

Can you walk us through what precisely is included, dollars, cadence, timing, etc., just so we have a kind of a clear understanding of funding throughout the year as currently contemplated?

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, Rich. I mean, my comments were -- the specific comment was we do not include in guidance any funding or development funding that does not have a identified draw schedule. And as we sit here today, you know, we're continuing to fund Great Wolf Northeast or funding Canyon Ranch Austin and Cabot Citrus Farms, and it's $15 million, $20 million a month or so is that -- and, you know, Great Wolf Northeast completes in May of '25. Canyon Ranch is sometime in '26.

Citrus Farms is working through, you know, later this year or early next year. So, it's -- there's not a specific number per month because it's all based on the timing of the draws and the amount of the draws. And then obviously, as the developments are completed, we have a construction loan -- fully funded construction loans outstanding.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

OK. That's actually helpful. And just to be clear, Venetian, you know, PPG funding is kind of separate from that. Is that -- what's the timing on that one as well, if I have that correct?

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. So, we announced the -- we announced a total commitment of 700 million. They drew 400 million in 2024, and that is all converted to rent and embedded in the lease. Now, they have the option but not the obligation to draw an incremental $300 million of that commitment over time.

And they're going through their budgets right now and their plans. And as John talked about, putting a lot of new -- as you may have seen, a lot of new restaurants and a lot of new experiences in the Venetian. And so, they're working through if and when they would draw that incremental 300.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

And needless to say, Rich, given that they have not firmly committed to using any of that, none of that is in guidance.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

OK. That's very helpful. And then one last kind of small one, and I think you guys have addressed this on prior calls, but just so, you know, we all have it clear. You know, you do see some pretty swing -- pretty big swings in, I guess, the change in allowance for credit losses in the income statement.

Obviously, a noncash number, you know, most of the time. We hope there aren't any actual credit losses. But just, David, help us understand the drivers of that quarter-to-quarter swing.

Gabriel Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

Yeah. Hey, it's Gabe Wasserman here. I can take that. So, in the fourth quarter, most of the --

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

Hey, Gabe.

Gabriel Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

Allowance is really driven by -- hey -- it was really driven by Moody's, which is the service provider that we use to help us model out and project future losses. In the fourth quarter, their economic scenario, which is scenario, condition, and a requirement of the model, and the banks are using similar forward projections, they were kind of forecasting a, you know, higher-for-longer interest rate, potential tariffs, and some headwinds economically, and that was going through our projections. So, that was really the driver of the increase in the allowance in the fourth quarter.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Which, Gabe, would be -- another way of saying it is it was more general than specific --

Gabriel Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

Right.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

To any [Inaudible] credit --

Gabriel Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

More macro as opposed to micro to any of the specific tenants.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

Perfect. Very helpful. Thank you, guys.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

And, Rich, you get an award, Rich, for asking about CECL.

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

I knew we had addressed CECL on prior calls, but I just -- I think it's been a little while. So, again, I appreciate the color. Thanks.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, it has. There you go.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Jim Kammert of Evercore. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Jim Kammert -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst

Thank you. Good morning. I know, David, obviously guidance excludes new capital markets activities, but given the 1.3 billion that's rolling or maturing, I should say, of notes in Q2, how is VICI leaning right now, repay part of that or refi, and what would it cost be?

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

I think I got the gist of your question, Jim. You're breaking up a little bit. Yeah, we've got a May maturity and June maturity, and we don't make any assumptions and guidance on those refis. But we're seeing on a 10-year kind of 1.20, 1.25 spread over the 10-year, which, I don't know, was at 4.48 if you -- you know, earlier this morning, but obviously bounces around.

So, like a mid-5, 5.5 to 5.75 area for a 10-year refinancing.

Jim Kammert -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst

Great. Thank you. And then obviously early innings with the new relationship with Todd Boehly and otherwise, but has his relationship or ownership of Chelsea helped give you a little inside-the-tent kind of view as to how those owners and consortiums think about attracting additional capital and opportunity for VICI?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Well, certainly, you know, in the specific case of Chelsea, one as is true of so many of the Premier League teams, they're very focused on making sure that they are doing everything they can to maximize game-day revenue. And obviously, maximizing game-day revenue involves making sure you have the optimal stadium and, to a great degree, now increasingly, the right surroundings around the stadium. We've had, I would say, Samantha, very preliminary chats with Todd around their vision for what Chelsea FC can become in terms of its placement in London, but not much more than that.

Jim Kammert -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst

OK. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Smedes Rose of Citi. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Smedes Rose -- Analyst

Hi. Thank you. I just -- I wanted to ask you if maybe you could provide any sort of update on the licensing process that seems to be kind of lurching forward in New York for, you know, full-on casinos. And just kind of as part of that, if your MGM property were not selected for a license, does it just remain as a -- essentially a slots-only facility, or is there some other change that would take place?

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Smedes, it's John. I probably should be asking you what you think about the New York process. Look, I think there's news almost every day. We're sitting here in New York all together.

I read an article yesterday about one of the groups that is potentially bidding on the license. It does seem like there's progress being made on all the different steps it takes to win one of the three licenses. It does still seem like they're shooting for a decision at the end of this year, but your guess is as good as mine. Same with the last part of your question, you asked about the MGM property at Empire City.

We're excited about that that group has put together a very healthy bid for the full license. I don't know the exact answer to your question, should they not receive one of the three licenses, how that ultimately plays out with the -- as the slot facility. But I think as this whole process plays out with the gaming commission, the -- how they make their decisions, we'll continue to learn more. But it does seem like there's more progress in Quarter 1 '25 than there has been in a while, but it's hard to determine ultimately when the final stage is.

Smedes Rose -- Analyst

OK. And then in terms of the One Beverly Hills, and maybe this doesn't make any difference in terms of your loan to them, but I just wanted to ask you -- I mean, Los Angeles has a lot of luxury retail readily available, has a lot of luxury housing, and it has a lot of luxury hotels. And I guess, you know, from their perspective, what, I guess, is giving them confidence that there's incremental demand for more multimillion-dollar condominiums and more Chanels and whatnot? And just, I don't know, maybe that's sort of a dumb question, but I'm just kind of wondering how they're thinking about the demand factor there.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. I think -- and I'm priming Samantha. She's going to need to speak here in a moment because she actually has experience with Aman. I think, Smedes, to answer your question, we really have to do all we can to help everyone understand the brand power of Aman.

Aman, obviously, is not a public company. There are no Amans within hotel REIT portfolios. But if I were you, I would just do a price check on the rates that Aman gets location by location around the world because Aman is in a league of its own. Correct, Samantha?

Samantha Sacks Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

Yeah, I think just to Ed's point, you're talking ultra high-end luxury. It truly is above and beyond really what you see almost anywhere else in the world. And they've been able to do it in cities throughout the world. And I think that's what they'll bring to Beverly Hills, which I don't think they have up here.

Yeah. And, you know, it's so much to the credit of the Cain team. They were able to get entitlements and permitting for that 17.5 incomparable acres for incremental hotel supply in Beverly Hills. And some of you may have seen, over the course of 2024, that LVMH was unable to get entitlements and permitting for Cheval Blanc on Rodeo Drive.

There is supply there, to your point, Smedes, but again, I would -- we will do all we can to help everyone understand the very, very differentiated position of Aman in every market in the world that it operates -- in which it operates.

Smedes Rose -- Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from David Katz of Jefferies. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

David Katz -- Analyst

Thank you. Good morning, everybody. I wanted to ask a little bigger-picture question. First, congratulations on your announcement of the new partnership.

But in that cut, putting it all in context, the discussion we have with investors frequently is around, you know, thinking about underwriting the various aspects of your TAM. And obviously, a deal like this adds to your TAM in some ways, right? But to an earlier question about the duration of the capital you have out now and how we sort of think about that strategically, then the potential expansions embedded in your current portfolio and how we think about underwriting those versus, you know, a new casino partner to be named later, so to speak, right, they're across the spectrum, and I'd love, Ed, your -- just your thoughts and comments around how we, you know, underwrite those or whether it's straight math?

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, it is a great question, David, and one of the ways in which I'll answer it is that when we think about TAM, we really also think about the -- I'm trying to come up with an acronym on the spot, and I'm not going to do it, David. I was going to say like the TAR, the total amount of the relationship. That's not very good, is it?

David Katz -- Analyst

It's excellent.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Anyway, what I'm getting at is --

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

On the fly.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, there you go. Thank you, David. Yeah, on the fly. Yeah, I'll do better next time, I promise.

The -- when we -- as we began to get to know Cain and Eldridge, we very quickly developed very high conviction that this has the potential to be a multibillion-dollar relationship over time. We do believe there can be opportunities within that relationship for us to ultimately own permanent real estate, but also the opportunity to continue, as I -- in my answer to Caitlin indicated, the opportunity to have numerous funding opportunities and thus opportunities to continue to roll our capital behind their initiatives. And so, we are very, very focused on widening our TAM without diluting our quality, our quality of relationship and our quality of investment. And again, I -- at a time like this when the gaming deal flow is what it is, we believe we serve our stockholders very well by developing these kinds of relationships to give our stockholders participation in what we think is some of the most compelling placemaking taking place right now.

David Katz -- Analyst

OK. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, David.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from John Kilichowski of Wells Fargo. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

John Kilichowski -- Analyst

Thank you. Good morning. Maybe if I could just circle back on that last comment. Ed, you said that, you know, eventually, owning some of the real estate in these deals with Cain and Eldridge.

Could you specify specifically maybe what types of real estate you'd be looking to own here? Obviously, in this project, it's multiuse. We have the hotel, the residences, the retail, the food and beverage. Just curious what you would be considering owning versus not owning.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. And just to be clear and as I've indicated earlier in my remarks, we are not optimistic that we would eventually own any real estate within One Beverly Hills. This is real estate that if it -- if and when it trades, it will trade at stratospheric values. And also, it's real estate of a nature that doesn't exactly fit our investment criteria, which obviously mainly -- does involve net lease.

But beyond that, as you look across the Eldridge-Cain portfolio, I think you will see, again citing that really good slide in the transaction deck, businesses -- current businesses within Cain and Eldridge that involve real estate that very, very much resembles real estate that we already own. And I would cite the example of Chelsea Piers as the type of real estate we already own and are very excited to continue to invest in.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

And I have one thing to that as well. Creating partnerships like we have with Cain and Eldridge also opens other potential partners that are around the world that are seeing what we are doing with our capital to help other experiential companies grow. I mean, we just made this announcement, and there are folks that are reaching out saying, a very interesting way that you are getting involved with that project. We'd like to talk to you about X, Y, and Z.

So, don't underestimate that as we continue to build these world-class developers and partners, that it also opens new ones for us and doesn't keep us as, hey, you're that -- you're just that gaming REIT, which we love casino gaming, but it really has opened the funnel for conversations about other opportunities for us around the world.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. And I just want to build on what John is saying, too, that there's actually another dimension of partnership in what we've just announced and though it may not have been visible in our releases. This marks the fourth time in which we will have partnered with J.P. Morgan in participating -- working together on a capital structure for a very compelling development.

And as you all know, we are a very small team. We have over 25% of the company sitting at this table, and that's seven people. And so, we are always very focused on opportunities to force multiply what we are able to achieve at VICI, and we're really, really appreciative of the partnership that David and his team have formed with Brian Baker and his team at J.P. Morgan when it comes to identifying opportunities to work together and put our capital to work in opportunities that might not have otherwise been available to us.

John Kilichowski -- Analyst

Got it. I appreciate that. And then, you know, maybe jumping back to one of the first comments you made today was just on the pipeline really picking up, and I'm curious, on the other side of that equation, how is the competitive landscape changed? I feel like across most of our earnings discussions this quarter, we've heard competition has certainly spiked from the private side. I'm curious if you're seeing the same.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

It's been the same since we started the company. You know, this is a space, particularly the casino space, where there's a lot of interest. There's great operators. There's great real estate buildings perform like no other in the experiential sector.

So, as we look at any opportunity, we go in with our eyes open that there's others that are looking at this. And that's why we've pride ourselves on building deep relationships, win the ties, and grow the company in that fashion. So, I wouldn't say we see an increase in competition. I'd say it's always been there, and we want to continue to be out there as well.

John Kilichowski -- Analyst

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from John DeCree of CBRE. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

John DeCree -- Analyst

Hey, everyone. You covered a lot of ground but maybe two more, one on the casino M&A environment. I think we discussed it a little bit earlier pointing to the volatility in the 10-year, but, Ed or John or David, curious if you have any thoughts as to what else is kind of influencing I guess I would say the lack of M&A in the space. Whether it involves real estate or not, it seems like it's still kind of quiet.

So, curious if you kind of see any other factors in there that are, you know, maybe causing that.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

I don't -- hey, John, it's nice to talk to you. You hit on a few. Again, in my remarks earlier, while I was answering one question, I just talked about Las Vegas. And if you're an operator in Las Vegas and you're performing the way you're performing, you have to say, well, where else would I like to operate, and you'd land on I'd rather own this asset.

I can continue to invest in it. There are new customers coming through my door every day, and I'm going to just make this a better place. I mean, the results that you saw out of Las Vegas, I mean, Wynn's results were absolutely incredible. We saw those incredible results coming out of the buildings that we own.

So, John, I don't see a lot of trading in Las Vegas at this time. When it comes to the regionals, I think it's just a matter of they like operating those businesses right now. There could be some trades over time. And if there are, we will see if there's an opportunity for us.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

And, John, I'll just add to that that I think when it comes to regional gaming, you know, we're in a period where investing in regional gaming has to be done with precision, market by market, asset by asset. We're obviously seeing supply growth across much of the U.S. regional landscape. And I think if you're going to invest incremental capital in regional gaming, you want to be highly conscious of new competition and new supply and what that would mean for same-store sales at existing assets.

So, again, it's not solely a case of, well, what's available. It's also a case of, well, what do you really want to own? Again, we are very much in this for the long term, and thus we are going to be, by nature, selective.

John DeCree -- Analyst

Thanks, Ed and John. That's helpful. Maybe one more on the discussion of kind of Aman hotels as a good example, you know, a lot of those ultra high-end international hotels. I'm curious your thoughts on how you think about expanding a bit more internationally.

Obviously, there are some in Canada. But would you go overseas kind of in a -- in an investment or lending capacity like you've done in California recently, so opportunities where maybe not real estate ownership, but MEZ or however else you would structure it in some international markets or something like that on the table? How kind of far have you explored those kind of lending in international market opportunities?

Samantha Sacks Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

Yeah, this is Samantha. So, we definitely would, and we actually do have some lending activity in the U.K. and Scotland right now with Cabot. And we've done -- our internal team has done a lot of work around really mapping the world and where we can invest both from a lending perspective, as well as an acquisition perspective, understanding any tax leakage and really looking at what jurisdictions would be most compelling for us so that when we look at our TAM, we're really knowledgeable about that.

So, the answer to that question is yes, we absolutely can and would.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

And have.

Samantha Sacks Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

And have.

John DeCree -- Analyst

Thank you very much.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, John.

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from Chris Darling of Green Street. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.

Chris Darling -- Green Street Advisors -- Analyst

Thanks. Good morning. Question on the gaming side. It seems like there's been a lot more capital flowing into the historic horse racing segment of the market.

A couple of projects, I think, have been announced in New Hampshire. Is this a segment of the market that's interesting to you and how would you think about sort of the opportunities and risks involved?

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Chris, nice to speak to you. Yes if you're asking would we make an investment into a racetrack, particularly most of these investments are adding some form of new gambling to that investment. So, whether it's historical racing machines that are being added in certain markets. Other markets are adding just simple Class III slot machines.

And some, as we heard earlier today, talking about Empire City, their ability to turn a racino into a full-fledged casino. So, to answer your question, they're all areas that we would have interest in placing investments if we have the right partners, if it had the right structure along the way. So, we continue to study the markets that you mentioned and other markets that could -- as I mentioned, there could be some new markets that open up over time, and we'd be interested in those as well.

Chris Darling -- Green Street Advisors -- Analyst

All right. Fair enough. And then just one more quickly from me. Curious if you could walk through the rationale from a PURE gaming standpoint to sell the Canadian operations to IGP.

And then I think it'd be helpful as well to understand a little bit more about who IGP is, kind of their scale, where they own, future ambitions, anything that you could add.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Yeah, we were very excited. We had a great relationship with the management team and the owners of PURE, but we are excited to form our new relationship with a few tribes that have -- nations that have come together to form this group. We're learning more about their interests, their capacity to grow their business. That was one of the things that we were excited about, not only them acquiring the operations of the assets we own in Canada, but also our ability to continue to partner not only in Canada but there could be opportunities all over the world.

So, the more we learn about each other -- this was our first opportunity to work together -- the more I think you'll see us grow with them over time should the right opportunities come about.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

And, Chris, just to make sure I understood your question clearly, I want to clarify that we didn't sell anything. The prior owner of PURE, Onex, a Toronto-based PE firm, sold the OpCo to IGP. And not only are we excited about IGP being our new partner on the Alberta assets, it also signifies that OpCos are marketable, that there are buyers for OpCos, which I think there has been some questioning around. But this is a clear example of gaming OpCos as OpCos having value.

Chris Darling -- Green Street Advisors -- Analyst

Got it. And yeah, that point was understood, Ed, but I appreciate the clarification. That's all from me. So, thanks for the time.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Chris.

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Thanks, Chris.

Operator

Thank you. At this time, I'll turn the call back to Ed Pitoniak for any further remarks.

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Alex, and thanks to all of you. We know you've got -- many of you have another call coming up here just momentarily. So, we wish you the best, and thanks again for attending this morning. Bye for now.

Operator

[Operator signoff]

Duration: 0 minutes

Call participants:

Samantha Sacks Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

Edward Baltazar Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

John W. R. Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

David Kieske -- Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer

Anthony Paolone -- Analyst

Ed Pitoniak -- Chief Executive Officer

John Payne -- President and Chief Operating Officer

Tony Paolone -- Analyst

Caitlin Burrows -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

Barry Jonas -- Analyst

Greg McGinniss -- Analyst

Greg McGinnis -- Analyst

Richard Hightower -- Analyst

Rich Hightower -- Analyst

Gabriel Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

Gabe Wasserman -- Chief Accounting Officer

Jim Kammert -- Evercore ISI -- Analyst

Smedes Rose -- Analyst

Samantha Gallagher -- Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary

David Katz -- Analyst

John Kilichowski -- Analyst

John DeCree -- Analyst

Chris Darling -- Green Street Advisors -- Analyst

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